Q&A with Effects Animator

LJC: How did you become an animator? Was it a lifelong goal, or were you surprised to find yourself with a career in animation?

K O'Neil: Mine wasn't a lifelong goal, because I got into animation later than most of my peers. I was thirty one when I first worked for an animation studio in Chicago after leaving the American Academy of Art after three years. I'd always wanted to be an artist when I was young, but I wasn't focused on which type. I drew lots of cartoons as a kid. When I was around fourteen, I wanted to be like Johnny Hart who drew B.C. or Charles Shultz. I thought that would be pretty cool to be a cartoonist. Then I stopped drawing for about ten years, from age 18 to 28, when for some reason I found myself working in a factory for a couple of years. I then went on to be a muscian and guitar teacher for about 7 years. Then I went back to art school when I was 28.

During my last year in school I aimed myself towards animation, and on completing school I got jobs locally in Chicago working on commercials. I did that for almost two years until Don Bluth hired me in Ireland to work on All Dogs Go To Heaven, my first feature film. My wife was pregnant at the time so I figured this was a good move towards a steady job, and not just freelancing all the time. It was a great learning experience for me.

What project are you currently working on, and where can we find your past work?

I am currently doing freelance for DreamWorks prequel to Prince of Egypt, something called Joseph. But it's through a Canadian studio. I want to work on Osmosis Jones, WB's next feature. We'll see.

My past work includes the Bluth films from All Dogs Go To Heaven to Thumbelina. I became an animator on Thumbelina. I switched over full time to effects on Swan Princess for Rich Animation. I also put in a year as both character animator and effects over at Warner Bros Classics division. We did lots of commercials. We also did a Daffy Duck thing, a Duck Dodgers in the 3rd Dimension. It was a 3D simulator ride type short for a theme park in Germany. I hear it also plays at the Warner store in New York City. I then worked for Disney as an effects animator on Hercules and Mulan, before coming to The Iron Giant. I did some freelance work on FernGully too.

Who have been your greatest influences as an artist and storyteller?

As far as art is concerned, probably my teachers were the greatest influence. A guy named Bill Parks at the Academy influenced me a lot. He was my life drawing teacher. He seemed to know so much about life which to me seems what art is all about. As far as artists are concerned, I'm influenced by everybody. No one in particular. I'm one of those people who also likes to learn on their own. I love American artists like John Singer Sargent, Thomas Eakins, and a guy named Richard Schmid. I really love people who can paint seascapes as well. Charles Vickery and Carl Evers paint great ships and water. Not too many in the animation end of things I'm afraid.

Storytelling is a tough one. I do effects, so storytelling in the normal sense doesn't really come into play for what I do in animation. But my favorite storyteller has been Mark Twain.

Watching Brad Bird's The Iron Giant certainly influenced me too in storytelling sense. It's so simple, and complex at the same time. I'm a fan of the old Disney movies in story but not the music. I never liked that choir style music in Bambi or Sleeping Beauty. One can't fault the art though. I am glad movies like The Iron Giant have stepped away from the classic fairy tales and typical formula. I love that time period, the fifties and early sixties. There's an innocence there in America that makes nice films. I'm a little tired of myths and legends and fables. And being a musician, I like that early rock stuff.

What are your top five favourite animated films of all time?

Iron Giant would be one of the five for sure. Truthfully, I'm not a great student of animated films funny enough. I've seen all the Disney films but not much Japanese or other foreign stuff. Never seen Watership Down either, although I hear it's good. Secret of NIMH is good, too. Pinocchio is one of my favorite animated movies. I used to watch it over and over again for both Pinocchio's acting animation, and the effects, especially the simpler but really effective ones. Another great moment, when Jiminy Cricket pulls his umbrella through the bubble under water and it fills up and breaks under water. That's just great. I really cherish the small moments in films.

Who has been your favorite director to work with thus far?

Easy. Brad Bird. He knows what he wants. It's that simple. His directions are clear. There is usually no doubt about what he trying to achieve. He didn't beat around the bush as to his ideas for your scene. He could be harsh like anybody directing a film but he was a good guy. I'd love to work for him again.

Is there a director or writer you are dying to work with, and/or do you have a dream project that you would love to be on?

If I come up with a dream project it'll have to be mine. But I haven't thought of my dream movie yet. I am working on some scripts of my own, but they are for live action.

I think it would be neat to work on a Nick Park film. I love the Wallace and Grommit things, but that's 3D stop motion, which I don't really do. Another person I'd like to work with would be Tim Burton. I like his movies.

What exactly does your job as an animator entail, and which sequences of The Iron Giant do you personally work on, or oversee?

As an effects animator, my job is the effect of the old cause and effect. Someone steps in the puddle I make it splash. In some ways half the job is already done for us. We don't really have to make the character act, but we can make the scene funny or scary or emotional by the reaction if it's done right. We would essentially get the scene already cleaned up and it would be calling for the effect, whether it be the shadows or water or fire or whatever. Then we would animate that part according to the directions of our effects supervisor and Brad's notes.

A prime example in Iron Giant (done masterfully by another animator, Michel Gagne) is the huge splash when the giant jumps into the lake and Dean gets washed onto the road. That scene got great laughs. It evoked an emotion from the crowd.

Design plays a big part in effects. You want to see not only a great effect but a nice design too. You have to have a good sense of what to put in and what to leave out of representing something that is real. You don't put in every drop of water. It's an impression of a splash. If you drew what was realistically representing a cannon blast or something it would probably come out looking rather mushy. I watched a lot of the Victory At Sea videos. They had some pretty cool footage of warships and explosions. Some study of physics is involved. Effects animators are a different species than their character counterparts I think. I can sit and watch a water fountain all day wondering how to animate it. Another thing was Kent lighting his pipe. Brad had a specific idea in mind, like the smoke from Lampwick and Pincochio smoking their cigars. So I studied how they did that, and he loved it. That old stuff is just amazing, I think. And that was painted on cels without all the computer gadgetry we have now.

I did a bunch of stuff all over the movie. I had the darkroom sequence except for one scene, where Kent is developing the pictures in the bathroom. At the beginning storm I animated the water after the big surf wave that throws the fisherman onto the rocks. John MacFarlane did the surf wave and I did the stuff under it running down the rocks at the end of the pan and in the closeup of the old guy clinging to the cliff. Other things were the cannons blasting the robot from the battleships. I did two or three scenes of the smoke from the train when it hit the robot.

How did The Iron Giant differ from other projects you have worked on, and what were the most exciting differences that make this particular project stand out in your mind?

Different? Well I came on during the last nine months of it so I don't know how it started. As far as effects were concerned most movies in the major studios have the same pace, only I know this one had a much shorter time frame. The exciting thing was that it was a different movie. It had a better story. I loved the fact that not one character broke out into a broadway song, or wasn't searching for where he/she belonged. No contrived twists and turns, and no forced humor. Not one fart joke either.

What were your greatest challenges, and what do you feel were your greatest triumphs on The Iron Giant?

My greatest challenge is always getting the work done the way the director wants it. But once you find out what he likes it gets easier. I didn't have many colossal effects scenes but every scene any one of the animators does adds to the overall look of the film. I liked doing things like the cannons, or the water. I would've liked to add more water but we were running out of time right near the end.

Was there anything in particular you learned, working on The Iron Giant, that you value highly? And how will you take that knowledge into your next project, or do you believe your experiences on The Iron Giant will prove unique?

I think I've just added another notch in my belt to learning more about the craft. Working on this crew was great. This crew seemed to pull together more. You could ask anybody anything. The people in this effects department are a lot looser than I've worked with. It wasn't animators just locked up in their offices all day not talking to anyone. We had fun and that's also important.

What was your first impression of the completed film?

I thought it was great. The first time I saw the final was at Mann's Chinese Theater at the premiere. I knew I was seeing something special that hadn't been done before.

Has The Iron Giant changed the way you view your work, and how do you think this film may change American animation as a whole, in terms of quantum leaps, or even simply influencing future animators?

I just know I'm glad to have had the chance to work on this film. It's important to me, whether or not it's important to anyone else. I'm sure it will influence students of animation. More upcoming animation students seem pretty jazzed about it. It's a stepping stone to the next generation of American animated films. I hope the era of animated Broadway musicals has ended.

The blending of computer generated images (CGI) with traditional hand-drawn animation in The Iron Giant is almost seamless--how do you feel about the computer as a tool, and how do you answer those who see it as moving away from the traditional art of animation? Or do you believe that in the decade since The Little Mermaid and Roller Coaster Rabbit, and the age of films like Toy Story, that the use of computers in animation is no longer an issue?

I think the computer is a great tool. Now to clarify, it is a tool. It's another way to express what we as animators can do. As an animator you still must be an artist. The computer can't draw by itself. The best cgi animation is still done by those with traditional backgrounds in my opinion.

I like the look of hand drawn and computer animation. I do think there is room for both. As the movies change so will the use of cgi change too. It seems to be the general public is the most uninformed about cgi. They seem to be always asking or telling us, "Hey don't you guys do all that animation stuff on computers now?"

You still have to have imagination, and keen design sense to pull this all together. But all the computer technology and animation finesse will never help a bad story.

Who is your favourite character in The Iron Giant?

I really liked the robot. I like characters that don't talk a lot. They have to act more. Talking can only get you so far, and the voice actor has to really have something to bring to the screen. His eyes worked in so many ways to convey emotion. I like the water, even though it's not "technically" a charater. I really liked the robot too. What the cg animators did with his expressions was great. I like characters that don't talk a lot. Some of my favorites over the years in any movies, Disney or otherwise have always been some of the extras, like the little dog in Mulan. [Little Brother] was my favorite character in that. Those are my favorite kinds of characters to animate. But Kent was good too. That whole bit with him cornering Hogarth around the house with all those nicknames, was great.

What do you believe is the most important theme or message in The Iron Giant?

To be who you want to be. It's your choice.

If you could choose just one scene of The Iron Giant to showcase the best aspects of the film to the American public, which scene would it be?

Don't ask me that! I don't even know where to start. One scene, huh? I'll start with him deciding not blow the battleships to kingdom come near the end, when Hogarth is looking right up the that huge barrel of an arm. He has a soul. The flinch of Hogarth's says it all, like he knows it's coming. But it doesn't. The general public did not at all get what this movie was about from the trailers.

The PG rating of The Iron Giant is much debated--some feel that all animated films should be suitable for children of all ages and believe that it is irresponsible of animated productions to NOT be suitable for the under sevens, while others applaud Bird's decision to aim for an older audience in order to keep the dramatic pacing and intensity of the film.

As an animator, what are your views on the subject, and how would you like to see American mainstream attitudes toward the art of animation grow and change? Do you believe The Iron Giant was hurt by the MPAA rating, or that it will set a valuable precedent in terms of broadening the scope and effectiveness of animation as a storytelling medium and art form in the United States?

No, I believe Iron Giant was hurt totally by the lack of studio backing. They didn't believe in it. The rating had nothing to do with it. PG or G doesn't matter. It's who or what message are you trying to convey to the public. Who exactly are you aiming this movie at? There is no language problem in the movie as far as I'm concerned. What ever was said, whether it was "damn" or "hell" fit the character and context.

It is a great film with a great story that just happens to be animated. I hope the scope broadens a bit. Animated films are not just children's films. Disney had cornered the market on the animated films and the public just naturally assumes it's another cartoon that they can drop the kids off at. But once we had the parents involved watching, it seems they got just as big a kick out of it as the kids. This film works on all levels, young and old.
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