Q&A with Lead Animator

LJC: How did you become an animator? Was it a lifelong goal, or were you surprised to find yourself with a career in animation?

R. Bazley: I had always been interested in animation from a very early age, but it seemed like one of those impossible desires kids have, like "I'd Like to be a Spaceman" or something. It didn't really seem a possibility. I should point out that I was raised in a place called Exeter in Devon, England, in a very picturesque part of the country. Imagine the movie Sense and Sensibility and the location shots in there. Well, they were shot in Devon. When I was ten my mum got me a book on Walt Disney by Leonard Maltin. I would pour over the illustrations (even though they were in black and white) and read about this fantastic place called Disney World. This was a time before cheap package holidays to the USA and to visit was an impossibility. (I was to visit it later at the grand age of 27! And for a short while was that 10 year old boy once again!)

As for animating, when I brought it up at a careers discussion of my school library, I was greeted by a blank stare by my teacher and the response "Well, that's a little bit specialised. Have you considered the police force?" Of course, I told him I hadn't.

My interest was raised again at the age of eleven upon viewing a program called The-Do-It-Yourself Animation Show. It was shown on a Sunday morning, and I think that until this day is the only thing that would get me out of bed on a Sunday morning! The show was hosted by the British animator Bob Godfrey, and each week he would talk to other animators in the field about their craft, from Terry Gilliam of Monty Python to Richard Williams. It was the one on Richard Williams that particularly got my attention. He showed a clip from his film then entitled The Thief and the Cobbler.

I was astounded by the life he would breath into the characters, and I was hooked, although it would be a long time before I would get into the business. But I did consider myself on the right track when I got a detention at school for doing a drawing of one of my teachers as a witch on a broomstick. The humour of it didn't quite strike the same cord with her though. Eventually at about the age of eighteen I found myself at Art School in Exeter Art School. This was the traditional Foundation Course where you explored various artistic mediums. Following this I went on to do a BA (hons) in Graphic Design. This course had different options such as Printmaking, Graphics, Photography, Illustration, Publicity and Animation. Now you would think that I would have followed my dream and do animation. Unfortunately Disney type animation and Warners or any classical animation was frowned upon. Most student were pressured to do the more experimental, Norman McClaren type of films. Nothing wrong with that type of work, but unfortunately Classical animation was totally ignored.

I went for what seemed like an easier option and took the "Publicity" course. At the time, all the students from this course were getting work in advertising, especially in London. What do you know? A couple of years later I'm working as an Art Director at an advertising studio in London. But something was missing. I would come up with ideas and do rough layouts, even get full pages in Vogue and other top newspapers and magazines, but I wasn't really expected to draw, and I wanted to draw! So I started looking around at the various Animation Companies in London. Most of them would look at my advertising work and say "Why would you want to get into animation?" They would see my sincerity, and in many cases gave me time and advice and were very generous. Jerry Hibbert at Hibbert Ralph Animation let me use the line tester when I didn't even work for him. Jill Brookes of Stuart Brookes Animation then mentioned that there was a big film being produced in town called Who Framed Roger Rabbit? and she helped set up what's called an inbetween test. I didn't tell her that I had dropped of a portfolio already and had been told that they were looking for experienced animators only! I decided not to mention this and give it another try.

First, though, I had to learn to inbetween (those are the drawings an inbetweener creates between the animator's keys). So the day before the test, I stop by a studio called Pizzazz, which was partnered by Eric Golberg. I explained my predicament, and he showed process of inbetweening. The next day I arrived at the Disney studio in London Campden to do the test. I found myself sitting at Richard Williams' desk (Director of Animation on the film) and could not believe that this was the same man I had seen all those years ago on the BBC animation program. I was only twenty four! The first thing that I asked for was the pencil sharpener and a finger pointed at a little red box on the desk. I looked puzzled and said "no, the pencil sharpener!" and gestured the motion with my hand. It then dawned on the person that I had never seen an electric sharpener. I was still a country boy!

What project are you currently working on, and where can we find your past work?

I am currently working on a very original idea called Osmosis Jones at Warner Bros. working as a Lead Animator on a character called Drix. My past work includes of course The Iron Giant, we consider to be a landmark film in the business and although it isn't getting the kind of box-office it deserves it is never-the-less a critical success and I believe that History will treat it well. Many great animated films did not do so well on their first release, Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland and Sleeping Beauty just to name a few. I supervised three of the sequences in The Iron Giant and probably includes my best work. Before that I was a Lead Animator over at Disney on Hercules. I animated and supervised the Earth Parents Amphitryon, Alcmene and the pot barer Demetrius. I also animated on John Smith on Pocahontas and prior to that, was a Directing Animator at Don Bluth Studios.

Who have been your greatest influences as an artist and storyteller, and what are your top five favourite animated films of all time?

There have been many influences over the years, one of the biggest is the British cartoonist Ronald Searle. I believe that I have over eighty books that he has illustrated that I have hunted down at book fairs and various second-hand bookshops scattered over England and I'm still missing a few! There are many other varied artists that I admire for very different reasons. I do like Art Deco and Tamera DeLampika. I also enjoy more commercial artists like Eyvind Earle and to see say his interest in say Gothic and Japanese Art fuse together and influence an animated film like Sleeping Beauty.

As an Animator I am obviously influenced by the great animators from Walt Disney Studios such as Milt Kahl, Marc Davies, Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston. I also am a huge fan of Marc Davies Fine Art, I have a few signed prints of his at home. Its interesting also to see influences of Picasso in Milt Kahl's designs and animation and Marc Davies personal work. Bill Peet the storyboard artist is another one.

My favourite top five animated films would be One Hundred and One Dalmatians the sophistication of such has never been seen since, Lady and The Tramp, Jungle Book, Peter Pan and Pinocchio. Even with all the advances in technology that we've seen we still don't seem to be able to attain the levels of storytelling, charm and sheer beauty that these films have. I'm hoping that one day The Iron Giant can attain this kind of status, only time will tell.

Who has been your favorite director to work with thus far?

Each Director brings a totally different set of sensibilities that make each film exciting and different from each other. I have huge respect for Brad Bird and his sense of storytelling and independence and vision... you have to have a lot of staying power in this business and he is the gustiest guy I've ever witnessed. It was his energy and drive that rubbed off on the crew of Iron Giant and made it what it was. John Musker and Ron Clements also have a terrific sense of entertainment as witnessed Aladdin and Little Mermaid.

Is there a director or writer you are dying to work with, and/or do you have a dream project that you would love to be on?

Ah! Dream projects! There are lots I would like to be on and many are sitting in my office at home. I have developed a number of projects over the years, including pitching The Iron Man by Ted Hughes (which The Iron Giant is based on) to Don Bluth over eight years ago. Well that one was turned down but since then I have concentrated on original ideas that I can copyright and protect. A couple of ideas I have developed with Howard Kazanjian (Executive Producer of Return of the Jedi and Producer of Raiders of the Lost Arc) and Producer Ron Mencer and hopefully one day I'll be here being interviewed on how we made those movies!

What exactly does your job as an animator entail, and which sequences of The Iron Giant do you personally work on, or oversee?

As Supervising Animator I was responsible for animating and supervising three of the sequences of The Iron Giant. This is the kind of system that they used on say The Jungle Book where the Supervisors took chunks of the movie. The advantage to this system is that you get a real sense of continuity in the progression of events through that sequence because you have one mind looking at everything in that sequence. The other system is to have Character Leads in which the Lead Animator is assigned a particular character, that way you do get consistency in the way a character is drawn because the animators have to check their scenes with that Lead, so we used a bit of this system as well.

On Iron Giant I personally animated and supervised on sequence 19.7 and 19.9 entitled Hogarth Teaches the Giant where Hogarth tries to teach him to talk when he encounters him in the forest and sequence 27 called The Interrogation where Kent tries to discover the Giant's whereabouts from Hogarth in quite an intense sequence in the barn.

How did The Iron Giant differ from other projects you have worked on, and what were the most exciting differences that make this particular project stand out in your mind?

Well, there are always certain expectations from animated films because of it's history starting right back to Snow White... and don't get me wrong I like the musical format, but in live action you don't always expect people to sing! The Iron Giant brakes that mold and can be viewed the way you would view any type of film. That doesn't make it a realistic film or rotoscoped (tracing live-action) which it is definitely not, but it employs some filming techniques usually usually associated with live-action, but at the same time has all the character and personality in the animation associated with the old Disney animated features. It also incorporates what I consider to be the best blending of Computer animation (The Giant) and traditional that I've seen to date.

What were your greatest challenges, and what do you feel were your greatest triumphs on The Iron Giant?

The greatest challenge for me was making the boy a real personality. I would study the tapes of the recording sessions of the actor Eli Merianthal and observe his mannerisms and any other personality quirks that I could observe to make him an individual. One of the dangers in animation is becoming stereotypical and samey and that is why so many non-Disney films have failed (artistically) because they have tried to copy Disney films. The thing is not to copy them, but to still employ all their good principles of animation and acting.

Was there anything in particular you learned, working on The Iron Giant, that you value highly? And how will you take that knowledge into your next project, or do you believe your experiences on The Iron Giant will prove unique?

Personally what I take from The Iron Giant is actually also a really good line from the film when Hogarth says to the Giant You are what you choose to be. To see Brad's sense of independence and determination in the face of such obstacles was a huge inspiration and I hope to carry that through with my own.

What was your first impression of the completed film?

Normally when you have been working on a film for a couple of years, you've seen it so many times that the impact of seeing all completed is diminished quite a bit. Not so with The Iron Giant. I was as choked up as anyone else at the end of the movie, and was filled with a huge sense of pride by being a part of it.

How do you think this film may change American animation as a whole, in terms of quantum leaps, or even simply influencing future animators?

I think that it will change and influence American animation, but gradually. Ironically, I think it is already influencing people over at Disney and I think that you will get some different type of films coming from them because of The Iron Giant

The blending of computer generated images (CGI) with traditional hand-drawn animation in The Iron Giant is almost seamless--how do you feel about the computer as a tool, and how do you answer those who see it as moving away from the traditional art of animation? Or do you believe that in the decade since The Little Mermaid and Roller Coaster Rabbit, and the age of films like Toy Story, that the use of computers in animation is no longer an issue?

As you say, computer animation is just another tool. They will develop hand in hand and sometimes influence each other in the same way that photography did not kill off painting in the early part of the century. For example, Degas was influenced by the snapshot and would deliberately cut off characters in the composition. This is how complementary computer animation and traditional will be. In fact, there is a good chance that the character I will be animating on Osmosis Jones will be computer animated.

Who is your favourite character in The Iron Giant?

I personally like Hogarth; he has so much character.

What scene affected you most in the movie?

I guess the line in the film that really cuts me up inside, is when the Giant is heading for the bomb to save the others and says Superman. My eyes well up every time, I'm such a sucker for that kind of emotion.

The PG rating of The Iron Giant is much debated--some feel that all animated films should be suitable for children of all ages and believe that it is irresponsible of animated productions to NOT be suitable for the under sevens, while others applaud Bird's decision to aim for an older audience in order to keep the dramatic pacing and intensity of the film. As an animator, what are your views on the subject, and how would you like to see American mainstream attitudes toward the art of animation grow and change? Do you believe The Iron Giant was hurt by the MPAA rating, or that it will set a valuable precedent in terms of broadening the scope and effectiveness of animation as a storytelling medium and art form in the United States?

No, I don't believe that it was hurt by the PG rating. Maybe the marketing! But that's another debate. I would like to see animated film accepted in any genre, and not just for children, although it's going to take a long time for public attitudes to change. Universal is even working on a CGI animated Frankenstein. The Iron Giant is the first of a series of nudges necessary to get the older audiences in, although I have always believed that the old Disney films were great because they appealled to adults as well as children. The hardest market for this this type of classical animated movies animated movies to appeal to is teenagers. I remember going as a teenager to see The Aristocats because I liked animation, but feeling very uncomfortable surrounded by noisy children! (Now I can take my own). There are some other types of films that have done well at the box-office, and appealed to this group. I don't think that these will stand the test of time and become Classics! However they serve their purpose, and broaden the market for animation. So for Classical animation, it's going to take time and a few more Brad Birds!
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